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Topic: Did God create woman, or did woman create God? (Read 3459 times) |
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thickness
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 24th, 2002, 5:55pm » |
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Quote:Woman as an afterthought!?!!!?!! Fartherest thing from it!!!!!! Woman was the epitome of God's creation!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She was brought on the scene after everything (EVERYthing) else was put in place. God knew that she deserved that!
She was presented to a man who (a) enjoyed close communion and fellowship with his God, and (b) had a task and purpose on the earth which he both realized AND was fulfilling. This is what we all deserve!
GOD looked at the man He had created and said it was not good for man to be alone. There must be a suitable helpmate for him. That's what we are to one another -- companions, helpmates, soulmates. Every other thing and creature was foreign to Adam's flesh, but God presented him with "bone of his own bone and flesh of his own flesh." Why?
Becaues the entire purpose of marriage is the mystery of two people becoming "one flesh." This great mystery is what we (however, unknowingly) try to recreate in all successfully, Biblically-based marriages. This oneness and this intimacy is a picture the Bible tells of our own relationship with God -- that we are knit that closely and that we are that vulnerable and open with one another.
Listen to the words of Paul:
"And you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean....In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man is actually loving himself when he loves his wife. No one hates his own body but lovingly cares for itm just as Christ cares for his body, whihc is the church. And we are his body. As the Scriptures say, A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are untited into one. This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. SO again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must repsect her husband." (Eph 6:25-33)
God has given us this earthly parallel of a deeper spiritual truth. Oh, if we could ever fully understand this!
I love the words of Bishop T.D. Jakes in Chapter 4 of The Lady, Her Lover, and The Lord. He writes: "She was the softer side of him. She was his tenderness, and those emotions he couldn't share. She was the tears that would not fall, the passion he didn't allow himself to feel, andthe trembling compassion that he could never express. When he makes love to her, he is actually embracing hte softerside of himself. He is holding all that he is unable to say in his arms and loving it, touching it, stroking it with the part of his being that wishes it could be held, and if he is wise, he does it with all his strength. Tenderness, sensuality, and passion erupt when he has the knowledge that he is somehow making love to the softer side of himself."
Whew! What a wonderful God to create this, not just for Adam but for every Godly man who views his wife (what the Bible calls a man's crown) the way God intends. |
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BlackOnyx03, keep in mind that this belief only applies to those who believe in the Christian bible's explanation of creation. Not all of us believe what you believe. Not all of us accept the bible's explanation of creation to be the truth. While I appreciate your post, it doesn't register with me, as I am not a Christian. I, therefore, don't believe in the creation theory as detailed and outlined in the bible.
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BlackOnyx03
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 24th, 2002, 10:16pm » |
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Quote:You've heard the age old question: Did God create man, or did man create God?
(of course, I changed the man to woman...)
Apply this to any religious/spiritual beliefs....
Where are your thoughts on this? |
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I completely understand where you are coming from, Thickness. I simply answered the question you posed from the very beginning.
I respect the fact that you and I have different beliefs. In fact, I find your questions to be very intriguing and sincere. I enjoy reading and responding.
You are definitely searching for answers, but (my perception) is that your search is one-sided. Rather than looking for Truth, you seem to automatically accept or at least consider anything that is NOT Christian. I don't know your experience with Christianity or what has caused your disillusionment and rejection. Only you and God know for sure...
It is not my goal to convert you or convince you to adopt my viewpoint. I simply pray that you have not rejected Christ because of (a) an incorrect interpretation of Bible passages on your part, or (b) an incorrect interpretation of Bible passages on another's part. If you choose to reject Jesus and believe otherwise, just make sure you've correctly investigated and interpreted His claims about Himself. I've heard read various things about what you think or what you've been told, but I've never really understood your position against Jesus Himself.
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thickness
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 25th, 2002, 3:35pm » |
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Quote:I completely understand where you are coming from, Thickness. I simply answered the question you posed from the very beginning.
I respect the fact that you and I have different beliefs. In fact, I find your questions to be very intriguing and sincere. I enjoy reading and responding.
You are definitely searching for answers, but (my perception) is that your search is one-sided. Rather than looking for Truth, you seem to automatically accept or at least consider anything that is NOT Christian. I don't know your experience with Christianity or what has caused your disillusionment and rejection. Only you and God know for sure...
It is not my goal to convert you or convince you to adopt my viewpoint. I simply pray that you have not rejected Christ because of (a) an incorrect interpretation of Bible passages on your part, or (b) an incorrect interpretation of Bible passages on another's part. If you choose to reject Jesus and believe otherwise, just make sure you've correctly investigated and interpreted His claims about Himself. I've heard read various things about what you think or what you've been told, but I've never really understood your position against Jesus Himself. |
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Point taken. My rejection is not so much with Jesus as it is with organized religion, and that means ALL religions. I have no interest in following any religion. I don't feel as though I need any middlemen or holy books to develop my relationship with my Creator/Higher Power. I truly believe that as soon as humans intervene with anything 'holy', it becomes fallable and distorted and tainted with their own selfish ideas. I am more interested in a one on one relationship with my Creator.
One sided? Maybe, if you only see my 'search' as Christianity vs. everything else. I don't see Christianity as the standard, and lump every other religion into the 'everything else' catagory. My eyes and heart are open to learn about other ideas as to why we exist and what our purpose is here on earth. Christianity just didn't touch my heart, the way that it has for other people. I grew up in it and had several years of exposure to it. It is not for me.
Though I have only had limited exposure to Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Athiesm and Judaism, I do know that they are not for me either. Having very little knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism, I am willing to study them to find the Truth, as you put it.
To sum it up, I don't believe that any one religion/philosophy could ever completely fulfill me. I take bits and pieces from them, whatever may touch my heart in a positive way, and I apply it to my life. It brings my life peace and a closeness to my Creator that no religion could do. And even if there was a religion out there that could, I am not interested in it right now. I am enjoying my spiritual journey and what I am learning along the way.
If I told you that there was another religion that would make you happier than you are now, would you be interested? Or are you happy where you are?
I am happy where I am, and where I am headed.
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usimmons
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 26th, 2002, 10:41am » |
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Wow! this is a hot question and I really appreciate how we can post our opinions and not be blasted for not beleiving the same things.
I'm in agreement with you, I am not a christian but I do believe in god and I do believe he created woman.
but as far as organized religion goes, I feel that this is just a way to keep us parted and unable to except and love each other for who and what we are. Everyone believes differently and as long as we continue to fight over it than satan will win.
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BlackOnyx03
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 28th, 2002, 10:55am » |
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Great points, Thickness!
Quote:| I am more interested in a one on one relationship with my Creator. |
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I completely understand! I have found this. Have you?
Quote:| I grew up in it and had several years of exposure to it. It is not for me. |
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Is saying organized religion is not for you the same as saying Christianity (and the Jesus it proclaims) is not for you?
Quote:| Though I have only had limited exposure to Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Athiesm and Judaism, I do know that they are not for me either. Having very little knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism, I am willing to study them to find the Truth, as you put it. |
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What is Truth? How will you know it when you find it?
Quote:| To sum it up, I don't believe that any one religion/philosophy could ever completely fulfill me. |
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Good! Religion and philosophy are never meant to give fulfillment. Only a Real and Living God can do this. "Religion" (in the sense that I think you are using it) only points us toward God. Prayer, going to church, and other "religious" activities are never ends unto themselves. We are left with nothing but dead form and fashion when we make them ends, and not means to an end. This type of dead ritual never fulfills anyone, and our souls are left restless and yearning for more.
Quote:| And even if there was a religion out there that could, I am not interested in it right now. |
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So is it fair to say that you love your questions more than you really love their answers?
Quote:| If I told you that there was another religion that would make you happier than you are now, would you be interested? Or are you happy where you are? |
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If I dedicated my life to pursuing happiness, I would take you up on that offer. If I believed that to be the supreme goal of man and the key to my ultimate fulfillment, I would gladly rush to receive the teaching of this so-called religion.
I do not, however, believe this to be true. Biblical writings like Ecclesiastes and the words spoken by Jesus Himself when He walked the earth teach that this is not my goal, nor is it the measuring stick by which I find my "truth."
I have a high calling. It is to be holy. It is to live holy. To walk holy. To think holy. To reveal God's holiness in a way that brings Him honor and praise. If I lived life looking for only what makes me happy, I would not be faithful to the charge God has given me.
Jesus is making me holy. He makes me more than just happy, he makes me whole. He makes me complete. He forgives my sins. He heals my diseases. He changes my attitudes. He cleans up my motives. He sets me free from my secret sins. He washes my mouth. He purifies my heart. My spiritual journey began when I saw Jesus for who He really is, and not who I believed Him to be.
There are plenty of "teachers" promoting their so-called paths to "happiness", "fulfillment", "enlightenment", or any other PC buzzword. You can always find a teacher to tell you what you want to hear. There will always be a religion that fits the lifestyle you have already purposed in your heart to live. Do this. Eat this. Don't eat this. Sit like this when you pray. Go here. Wear this. Then you will be happy, they say. Then you will find peace, they claim.
Well, I've found a peace that passes all understanding. I've found a joy that is deep and eternal. I've found Living Water and the Bread of Life. It is found only in Jesus Christ. Not in being raised in a religious home, not in going to church twice a week, not in praying on rosary beads, not in putting money in the church collection plate, not in sitting crosslegged and blowing out the candle, not in refusing to eat pork, not in keeping your head covered in public, not in any other man-made teaching or religion. Pursuing happiness as the world defines it? I'll pass. Pursuing with passion the living God, my Creator, who revealed Himself in Jesus Christ? I'll give my life!
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thickness
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #20 on: Dec 29th, 2002, 11:44am » |
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on Dec 28th, 2002, 10:55am, BlackOnyx03 wrote:| I completely understand! I have found this. Have you? |
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Yes.
Quote:| Is saying organized religion is not for you the same as saying Christianity (and the Jesus it proclaims) is not for you? |
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Yes. But to be a little more specfic, I don't believe in Christ (as the Savior), the existence of a Devil, the end being either heaven or hell, or the Bible (as the Word of God). So, I don't think Christianity would sit well with what I believe.
Quote:| What is Truth? How will you know it when you find it? |
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Actually, you were the first to mention the word 'truth', and so I ran with it. What I am seeking is peace, love and happiness, and a closeness with my Creator. When I feel inner and outer peace, love and happy beyond belief, I will know that I have found it.
Quote:| Religion and philosophy are never meant to give fulfillment. Only a Real and Living God can do this. "Religion" (in the sense that I think you are using it) only points us toward God. Prayer, going to church, and other "religious" activities are never ends unto themselves. We are left with nothing but dead form and fashion when we make them ends, and not means to an end. This type of dead ritual never fulfills anyone, and our souls are left restless and yearning for more. |
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And this is your belief.
Quote:| So is it fair to say that you love your questions more than you really love their answers? |
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Not at all. What answers are you referring to? Who answered my questions? As far as I knew, I was still on my spiritual journey, and still trying to figure out WHICH questions to even ask. Slowly, but surely, 'things' are being revealed to me, and are making a lot more sense for me on a spiritual level. Other than that, I'm not sure what answers you are speaking of.
To be continued...
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"The greatest thing about life is possessing the ability to re-invent yourself at any given moment."---thickness
"Society does not determine who you will become...you determine what society will become."---thickness
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thickness
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #21 on: Dec 29th, 2002, 11:47am » |
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on Dec 28th, 2002, 10:55am, BlackOnyx03 wrote:If I dedicated my life to pursuing happiness, I would take you up on that offer. If I believed that to be the supreme goal of man and the key to my ultimate fulfillment, I would gladly rush to receive the teaching of this so-called religion.
I do not, however, believe this to be true. Biblical writings like Ecclesiastes and the words spoken by Jesus Himself when He walked the earth teach that this is not my goal, nor is it the measuring stick by which I find my "truth."
I have a high calling. It is to be holy. It is to live holy. To walk holy. To think holy. To reveal God's holiness in a way that brings Him honor and praise. If I lived life looking for only what makes me happy, I would not be faithful to the charge God has given me.
Jesus is making me holy. He makes me more than just happy, he makes me whole. He makes me complete. He forgives my sins. He heals my diseases. He changes my attitudes. He cleans up my motives. He sets me free from my secret sins. He washes my mouth. He purifies my heart. My spiritual journey began when I saw Jesus for who He really is, and not who I believed Him to be.
There are plenty of "teachers" promoting their so-called paths to "happiness", "fulfillment", "enlightenment", or any other PC buzzword. You can always find a teacher to tell you what you want to hear. There will always be a religion that fits the lifestyle you have already purposed in your heart to live. Do this. Eat this. Don't eat this. Sit like this when you pray. Go here. Wear this. Then you will be happy, they say. Then you will find peace, they claim.
Well, I've found a peace that passes all understanding. I've found a joy that is deep and eternal. I've found Living Water and the Bread of Life. It is found only in Jesus Christ. Not in being raised in a religious home, not in going to church twice a week, not in praying on rosary beads, not in putting money in the church collection plate, not in sitting crosslegged and blowing out the candle, not in refusing to eat pork, not in keeping your head covered in public, not in any other man-made teaching or religion. Pursuing happiness as the world defines it? I'll pass. Pursuing with passion the living God, my Creator, who revealed Himself in Jesus Christ? I'll give my life! |
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I am so happy for you. And I respect your beliefs and what they mean to you.
All I ask is for the same in return. I don't recall 'interrogating' you on what you believe or why you believe it. I don't recall questioning what you believe is your life's ultimate goal. I don't recall insinuating that I somehow have the 'answer' and that you don't. I get the feeling that you are attempting to make what I believe as less credible than what you believe, simply because I stated that I turned away from Christianity. It was and is my choice. Why you would want or need me to explain why I made my choice baffles me.
Why do you believe what you believe? A belief is not something that can be proven, hence why it is called a belief. You can not prove that what you believe is the 'truth'. Yet, you believe it to be. I don't need you to explain why to me. I understand that you have faith in it and that is how you choose to live your life. I respect that.
Please respect me and my beliefs. I don't have all the answers, and unlike some people, I don't claim to. But one answer that I do have, is 'no'. 'No' to religion. 'No' to Christianity. 'No' to Islam. 'No' to belonging to any and every religion out there.
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"The greatest thing about life is possessing the ability to re-invent yourself at any given moment."---thickness
"Society does not determine who you will become...you determine what society will become."---thickness
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PoetiklyFroed
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #22 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 12:29am » |
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Thank you Thickness for bringing the knowledge you bring to these posts....
To answer your question I know (because this is my truth and it is only for me) that God/Goddess created woman and man just as much as they (we maybe) created the God/Goddess. Some have made God/Goddess responsible for things that God/Goddess didn't do and this is a part of creating God/Goddess. Thats whats true to them. I think it may be all in how we perceive things for ourselves.
-Froed
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thickness
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #23 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 08:42am » |
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on Dec 30th, 2002, 12:29am, PoetiklyFroed wrote:Thank you Thickness for bringing the knowledge you bring to these posts....
To answer your question I know (because this is my truth and it is only for me) that God/Goddess created woman and man just as much as they (we maybe) created the God/Goddess. Some have made God/Goddess responsible for things that God/Goddess didn't do and this is a part of creating God/Goddess. Thats whats true to them. I think it may be all in how we perceive things for ourselves.
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Thanx! That's very well put. It does seem like the overall answer is 'both'. I am really intrigued by:
Quote:| Some have made God/Goddess responsible for things that God/Goddess didn't do and this is a part of creating God/Goddess. Thats whats true to them. |
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"The greatest thing about life is possessing the ability to re-invent yourself at any given moment."---thickness
"Society does not determine who you will become...you determine what society will become."---thickness
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DivineSpirals
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #24 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 8:40pm » |
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on Dec 23rd, 2002, 06:38am, elleebeme5 wrote:Genesis 2:19-23
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [11] '
for she was taken out of man."
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In my experience, book quotes are usually followed by explanations. Why the quote was chosen and how it highlights your own thought. Please explain.
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DivineSpirals
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #25 on: Dec 30th, 2002, 8:42pm » |
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on Dec 24th, 2002, 10:16pm, BlackOnyx03 wrote:| I don't know your experience with Christianity or what has caused your disillusionment and rejection. Only you and God know for sure... |
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disillusionment ... 
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khamedra
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 4th, 2003, 10:15am » |
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In my research of ancient texts and religions and meditations, I have come to conclude that (1) Humans evolved to a certain extent and that highly advanced beings sped up our evolution to the point that we are at today (that explains the 600 year gap in our evolution). I also believe that humans came to worship them as gods because they were so technologically advanced. I also believe that that/ose being(s) became incorporated into the Bible and other religious texts, but they are not the true god/dess i.e. the conciousness/state out of which everything originated.
In short, I have come to conclude that there was extraterrestrial involvement in the development of the planet and human kind.
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Cia
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 05:47am » |
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from kwiyet
Quote: that what I believe doesn’t require a heaven or hell, doesn’t require a messiah and such. Not that this is bad, only that what I believe is more of a simple approach where the existence or need of any of that is not warranted. What I want to believe and achieve are solidarity and harmony with nature and my surroundings (I believe that I am apart of that), and peace with others and inner peace within myself.
Amen sistah Amen.
My point of view is simply....God IS both woman and man. There!
WE are the ones who put too much emphasis on who came first, what religion is best etc...when in actuality it really dosent matter ....to me 
When we teach our children to love, respect and honesty does it matter that Muslims name for God is Allah? Or is it more important that they SEE love, respect and honesty in US....
When we learn AND apply our teachings of compassion, awarness and acceptance does it matter that some people say women is an afterthought? Or is it more important that WE live in harmony....
Because we get so caught up in the sidelines many of us find it hard to keep our eyes on the goal which was so eloquently stated by sistah kwiyet........Peace 
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NaturalSerenity
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Re: Did God create woman, or did woman create God?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 20th, 2003, 7:45pm » |
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As a Wiccan, I do not accept nor believe the Christian-Judaic-Islamic-any other patriarchal-based religion here- view of how human beings came to be.
How could women have been created from any spare part of a man, when we have the able to hold, nuture sustain and give birth to life, and they don't?
How can we be just an help mate or partner to a man when we have bodies that monthly perform the act of cleansing itself through our menstruation?
The bible was written by men for men and to promote and mainatin the subjugation and denigration of women, IMO.
So many of the references contain passages that speak of women's inherent "evilness" and her preference for committing acts that would bring a man to sin and shame, when in reality, these verses were born of the fear men held/still hold (due to lack of any scientific knowledge) about the women's mysterious bodily functions of menstruatio and childbirth.
Men still fear women because our society promotes this ever-wdening gap between genders through religious, moral and social dictates.
What really gets me is that more women than men are involved in the promotion of this type of agenda; they are party to and sometimes leaders of groups that use religious, social and moral dictates to subdue women and convince them that their roles on this earth are ones of servitude, submission and shame.
Women were not born of men, and men were not born of women. I do not need my husband, male religous leader or any other person, man or women, to access the blessings of the Divine, nor would I wish to do so (and my hubby would not wish it as well); I am an individual, an adult sentient being who has the right to seek a personal relationship with the Divine, not based on a man, but solely on my feelings and desires regarding the said relationship.
Just my $ .02 -- spend it any way you like,
Serenity
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